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Re: RE: Circuit Emulation using MPLS?

  • From: "Anand Ganesh" <ganesh_dvr@rediffmail.com>
  • Date: 11 Dec 2001 13:43:59 -0000
  • Cc: "'mpls-ops@mplsrc.com'" <mpls-ops@mplsrc.com>, "Santiago Alvarez" <saalvare@cisco.com>, "'Mathew Lodge'" <mathew@cplane.com>, raszuk@cisco.com
  • Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:21:19 -0500
  • To: "Young,David J" <DavidJYoung@bulldogcommunications.com>
  • X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by host.secure4-hosting.net id fBBDibR07870


hai , 
 can u suggest me  a good link where can i start the g-mpls preperatory stuff,
 thanks in advance,
Ganesh 

On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 Young, David J wrote :
> Thanks to all who commented on this subject.  My main 
> issue is more of a
> business issue than technical in than we are an 
> wholesale only "Access
> Service Provider" and do not sell solutions direct to 
> customers.  Therefore
> we do not often get involved in changing the customers 
> network design (i.e.
> putting in Media gateways, etc.).  We currently have an 
> ATM network and
> offer two main product types...
> 
> 1. IP
> 2. TDM
> 
> With TDM, we do Circuit Emulation as it is much easier 
> for us to just say
> "Here is an E1 pipe, use it for whatever you want".  
> 
> I have just found a proposed internet draft
> [draft-malis-sonet-ces-mpls-05.txt].  I have not read 
> it though yet but
> would be interested in any industry views on this draft 
> or any other
> potential solutions.
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> David Young
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mathew Lodge [mailto:mathew@cplane.com]
> Sent: 10 December 2001 20:54
> To: Santiago Alvarez; raszuk@cisco.com
> Cc: Young, David J; 'mpls-ops@mplsrc.com'; 
> saalvare@cisco.com
> Subject: Re: Circuit Emulation using MPLS?
> 
> 
> At 01:17 PM 12/7/2001 -0800, Santiago Alvarez wrote:
> >Let me add some comments. You're effectively providing 
> circuit emulation
> >when you trunk voice through an IP/MPLS network.  In 
> this case, it's
> >really the voice gateway the one that compensates for 
> the jitter and
> >possible loss introduced by the network.  As Robert 
> mentioned, the apps
> >are been built to connect to the IP/MPLS network and 
> take care of the
> >emulation.  I guess if you consider the case of a 
> network with edge LSRs
> >also acting as voice gateways, you could argue that 
> your MPLS network is
> >providing circuit emulation (at least for your voice 
> services) ;-)
> 
> While this is true, there are a lot of n
rvices carried over 
> voice bearers today that make this an unusable solution 
> for a carrier-class 
> network. Good examples are modem and fax traffic. While 
> both of these can 
> be jitter buffered, treating them "just like voice" 
> (e.g. by sticking the 
> TDM frame into an RTP packet and crossing your fingers) 
> doesn't work. The 
> problem in real networks is packet loss. Even very 
> small amounts of packet 
> loss on the path (less than 1%) will cause fax and 
> modem calls to fail when 
> carried as VoIP. And real networks have enough packet 
> loss to lead to major 
> drops in call success rate for fax and modem calls.
> 
> So, what this really means is that it is a combination 
> of a well engineered 
> MPLS network and a good IP media gateway that is 
> required to match ATM 
> circuit emulation. The MPLS network has to offer 
> guaranteed bandwidth 
> (which, by the way, is entirely possible using policing 
> and marking at the 
> edge (i.e. int-serv) mapping to coarse grained 
> diff-serv in the core). The 
> media gateway has to take care of jitter buffering and 
> encoding for voice, 
> fax, modem and any other non-voice traffic carried over 
> voice-like bearers.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mathew
> 
> 
> >SA
> >--
> >
> >Robert Raszuk wrote:
> > >
> > > I think that providing circuit emulation over IP or 
> MPLS/IP networks
> > > should be simply forgotten. If ATM remains alive it 
> is for this very
> > > application. To really provide this over IP you 
> would need to use RSVP's
> > > int serv model what as you know never scaled to the 
> production
> > > capacities of any service provider.
> > >
> > > With L2 transport or with L3 routing you can achive 
> achive almost the
> > > same set of applications VoIP, videoconferecing etc,
>  trunking what you
> > > would use circuit emulation but this is different - 
> those new end
> > > systems and applications are desiged to work over 
> IP networks.
> > >
> > > Old fashined devices desined 
on are not.
> > >
> > > Also you should not be mistaken about differences 
> of carrying ATM cell
> > > payload of AAL5 mostly used for data communication 
> over IP/MPLS networks
> > > and trying to carry in the same way AAL1 (circuit 
> emulation ATM
> > > adaptation layer).
> > >
> > > Rgs,
> > > R.
> > >
> > > > "Young, David J" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone please post any detail relating to 
> comparison of ATM
> Circuit
> > > > Emulation Services, Vs capabilities with MPLS to 
> achieve similar
> results.
> > > >
> > > > Many thanks,
> > > >
> > > > David J Young
> > > > Manager, Voice & Data Services
> > > >
> > > > Bulldog Communications Ltd
> > > > Golden Cross House
> > > > 8 Duncannon Street
> > > > Strand
> > > > London, WC2N 4JF
> > > >
> > > > Direct line:   020 7484 5644
> > > > Direct Fax:   020 7484 8701
> > > > Mobile No.:   07767 793636
> > > > E-Mail:         davidjyoung@bulldogcommunications.-
> com
> > > > www.bulldogcommunications.com
> > > >
> > > > **************************************************-
> ********************
> > > > This email and any files transmitted with it are 
> confidential and
> > > > intended solely for the use of the individual or 
> entity to whom they
> > > > are addressed. If you have received this email in 
> error please notify
> > > > the system manager.
> > > >
> > > > This footnote also confirms that this email 
> message has been swept by
> > > > MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
> > > >
> > > > www.mimesweeper.com
> > > > **************************************************-
> ********************
> > > > Bulldog Communications Limited is registered in 
> England, number
> 4005262,
> > > > with its office address at Golden Cross House, 8 
> Duncannon Street
> > > > LONDON, WC2N 4JF, United Kingdom
> > > >
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> >
> >--
> >--------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------
> >  Santiago Alvarez                     (408)527-9285   
>        :    :
> >  IOS Technical Marketing - MPLS/QoS   
> santiago@cisco.com  ..:::..:::..
> >--------------------------------------------------------
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> 
> | Mathew Lodge                | mathew@cplane.com     |
> | Director, Product Marketing | Ph: +1 408 789 4068   |
> | CPLANE, Inc.                | http://www.cplane.com | 
> 
> 
> ********************************************************-
> **************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are 
> confidential and
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity 
> to whom they
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error 
> please notify
> the system manager.
> 
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has 
> been swept by
> MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
> 
> www.mimesweeper.com
> ********************************************************-
> **************
> Bulldog Communications Limited is registered in England,
>  number 4005262, 
> with its office address at Golden Cross House, 8 
> Duncannon Street
> LONDON, WC2N 4JF, United Kingdom
> 
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