The MPLS-OPS Archive

["S. Chkaravorty" <sc12@erols.com>]

Eric,

Thanks for your candid remarks.

SC

Eric Osborne wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 01, 1988 at 12:38:13AM -0500, S. Chkaravorty wrote:
> > Danny;
> >
> > It indeed is - pushed by some large vendors and some of their
> > not-so-experienced engineers.  Just as a note, before anyone gets overly
> > excited, it was many years back that RSVP was found NON-SCALABLE.  Guess what
> > protocol mirrors RSVP most?!
> >
>
> RSVP for classic IP flows doesn't scale well because it's used for
> host-to-host microflow, and there's bazillions of them in a large
> enough network.
>
> RSVP for TE doesn't actually scale any better, except you typically
> deploy TE in a mesh of (hundreds) of core routers, rather than
> (tens or hundreds of thousands) of microflows that would exist on the
> Internet should RSVP for IP be deployed.  So the scaling *properties*
> are fundamentally the same, but the demand for that scaling is by
> design several orders of magnitude less.
>
> Since this is an enterprise thread, though, let me point out that the
> enterprise population is far more likely to run RSVP-IP in its network
> than a service provider is, which means they have less to worry about
> with any scalability problems.
>
> As far as MPLS VPN vs. somthing like IPSec VPN, I think it's purely a
> religious war.  Every time this topic comes up, experienced
> operational folks say that it's a hassle and a pain and doesn't scale,
> but it tends to be the same 3 or 4 or folks on the same 3 or 4 mailing
> lists.  I agree that MPLS-VPN is not the simplest thing in the world,
> but as a vendor, I can tell you that we have lots of customers who
> *are* running MPLS-VPN for reasonably large customer bases and are
> happy with it.  So we may have pulled a super-duper smoke-n-mirrors
> job on them, but there are enough people out there who seem to be
> making money off of what we sold them that they're happy with it.
>
> Note that for the last two sentences in the previous paragraph,
> (s/VPN/IPSec) is also true.  It's like ospf vs. is-is; they're both
> useful, both do about the same thing (albeit slightly differently),
> and both have their fans and foes.
>
> eric
>
>
> > SC
> >
> > Vijay Gill wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Danny McPherson wrote:
> > >
> > > > There's NOTHING you can do with MPLS-based VPNs that couldn't
> > > > be done with IP-based VPNs (likely in a more scalable manner),
> > > > it's just that marketing hype and a bunch of glue has pushed
> > > > the former of the two into the spotlight.
> > >
> > > I see danny's experience as an operator is coming through. Let me second
> > > what Danny just said. From our given operational experience, vendors have
> > > their hands full, trying to make a few routing tables and the associated
> > > software work and this is something thats been worked on for a decade.
> > > I'm not holding my breath waiting for real networks with real customers
> > > (read more than a few thousand), to be able to deploy and support some of
> > > the more esoteric solutions being proposed here. I was fighting ibgp
> > > withdraw bugs as late as a year ago and we regularly reboot line cards
> > > trying to get forwarding working on some vendors equipment. I'll weigh in
> > > on the pessimistic side of things here.
> > >
> > > > As well, MPLS doesn't give you QoS any more than IP does, it's a big
> > > > bunch of marketing hype.
> > >
> > > Amen.
> > >
> > > /vijay
> > >
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