The MPLS-OPS Archive

["Jim Guichard" <jguichar@cisco.com>]

Robin,

> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Robin Clipsham [mailto:rclipsham@aapt.com.au]
> >Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 6:19 PM
> >To: mpls-ops@mplsrc.com
> >Subject: Re: [MPLS-OPS]: MPLS Debacle
> >
> >
> >The referenced article clearly contains a significant number of factual
> >innaccuracies regarding MPLS technology.
> >It also contained a number of statements about the way that providers are
> >implementing services and statements relating to market place
> >perceptions of
> >the security of MPLS VPN services.
> >I would be interested to hear comment on the validity of these
> >statements.
> >Is it reasonable to assume that since the author appears to me
> >miss-informed
> >about the technology, that these conclusions are also invalid ?
> >
> >
> >" in order to make MPLS support actual services such as VPNs, or further
> >  down the road mission-critical data and video, carriers have
> >to build overlay
> >  MPLS networks over existing MPLS-enabled IP pipes."

I think here he is making an assumption that LDP is required between
PE-routers when implementing MPLS based VPNs - this is clearly inaccurate
and shows a lack of understanding for the technology.

> >
> >" Carriers have to build separate MPLS-based overlay networks to provide
> >   some of the services that were supposed to be the pay-off for
> >deploying
> >   MPLS in the core. "

I have no clue what he is talking about here unless it is a restatement of
the previous statement :) Jim

> >
> >Any idea what he is getting at here ?
> >Is this referring to the use of a separate set of infrastructure
> >to support business
> >VPN services rather than carrying them over an internet backbone ?
> >Is this what carriers are in fact doing or are they running
> >business VPN's over the
> >same infrastructure as public internet ?
> >
> >" Customers, on the other hand, hesitate to run their mission
> >critical traffic over
> >   MPLS-enabled networks that also support Internet traffic.
> >Just one concern
> >   is what happens if routers running both the Internet and
> >priority-coded
> >   business traffic are shut down by the same denial of service attack.
> >
> >" However, most companies are afraid to put mission-critical
> >traffic onto MPLS
> >   VPNs that would have been fine (or are already fine) on
> >frame. In fact, some
> >   organizations, like soon to be HIPPA-controlled medical
> >businesses, are
> >   banned from using the technology because of the security concerns
> >   described above. "
> >
> >Is there any evidence to suggest that the market differentiates
> >between VPN services
> >provided over an ISP backbone from those provided over a
> >non-public infrastructure ?
> >
> >Regards,
> >Robin Clipsham
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________
> >Snr Network Engineer (CCIE 3626)
> >IP Development
> >AAPT Direct
> >180-188 Burnley St. Richmond Vic 3121
> >Ph: +613 8414 3451
> >Mob: 0414 657 928
> >email: rclipsham@aapt.com.au
> >
> >
> >>>> Christopher Lewis <chrlewis@cisco.com> 08/02/02 11:09am >>>
> >The author of this document seems to be poorly informed. Given
> >the number
> >of inaccuracies in the text, my opinion is that it will only be
> >by chance
> >if any of the conclusions drawn bear any relation to what happens in the
> >market. Note I do not say the conclusions are wrong, I can't predict the
> >future :-) Here are some of the more obvious problems with that article.
> >
> >1. "First, MPLS is still not standardized. Cisco Systems routers
> >that run
> >the protocol won't talk to Juniper Networks routers. "
> >
> >This is an incorrect statement, there are proven deployments of Juniper
> >routers and Cisco routers running MPLS and working together
> >
> >2. "Second, MPLS doesn't support services over Ethernet."
> >
> >I have no idea what the author was getting at here, there are
> >MPLS networks
> >that have ethernet links in them, and there are ethernet over
> >MPLS networks.
> >
> >3."Third, there are security concerns about VPNs running over MPLS."
> >
> >There are security concerns about everything. It is unclear whether
> >security of payload (ie encryption) or security of devices
> >running MPLS (ie
> >Denial Of Service attacks) are the concern here.
> >
> >4. "One of the founding fathers of several key MPLS standards
> >has written
> >another protocol that tries to use DNS to set up VPNs."
> >
> >I assume they're referring to DNS as opposed to BGP for
> >auto-discovery. I
> >don't see the connection between the success of MPLS, GRE or any other
> >tunneling technique to auto-discovery, they are both parts of a solution.
> >
> >5. "Cisco, which to date has the largest number of devices that run MPLS
> >deployed with carriers, posts information about the Universal
> >Access Interface"
> >
> >It's Universal Tunneling Interface, not Access, this is really
> >L2TPv3 and
> >extends that protocol to transport pdus other than PPP over a packet
> >network, its really a layer 2 transport protocol, it does not
> >enable layer
> >3 VPNs.
> >
> >Part of the clue maybe that the rag magazine is called Americas Network.
> >Deployment of MPLS in America is behind that of Europe, so I just assume
> >the authors aren't talking to people that have real MPLS experience.
> >
> >Chris
> >
> >
> >At 03:18 PM 8/1/2002, Keith Benjamin wrote:
> >
> >>I'd love to hear some opinions on this one...
> >>
> >>Lost in the bankruptcy shuffle ¯ the MPLS debacle
> >>http://www.americasnetwork.com/americasnetwork/article/articleDe
tail.jsp?id=
>26282
>
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