The MPLS-OPS Archive

["Bell, John" <john.bell@thus.net>]

Others of interest....

    For Axerra's CESoPSN, see http://www.axerra.com/cesoip_whitepaper.pdf
and draft-ietf-pwe3-cesopsn-00.txt.
 
    for RAD's TDMoIP, see draft-ietf-pwe3-tdmoip-01.txt. Rad also produced a
comparison (in their favour, naturally) between TDMoIP and CESoPSN -
http://www.dspcsp.com/tdmoip/compare.pdf
 
Internet drafts can be found at
http://mirrors.isc.org/pub/www.watersprings.org/pub/id/index-wgp.html
 
Cheers, 
	John

-----Original Message-----
From: Khan, Amjad [mailto:akhan@flagtelecom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 01:17
To: 'Vinay Bannai'; Alok Dube; mpls-ops@mplsrc.com
Subject: RE: [MPLS-OPS]: RE: L1/L2 over MPLS


The discussion has gained depth and fire.... 
One of the interesting RFCs on Sonet/SDH CEM over MPLS would be
draft-malis-pwe3-sonet-03.txt and followed by
draft-malis-sonet-ces-mpls-06.txt

Amjad

-----Original Message-----
From: Vinay Bannai [mailto:bannai@pacbell.net]
Sent: 24 August 2004 15:58
To: Alok Dube; mpls-ops@mplsrc.com
Subject: RE: [MPLS-OPS]: RE: L1/L2 over MPLS


For a RBOC which has legacy SONET/SDH network with ADM's sunk into the
ground running TDM frames over a "unsynchronized" packet network does not
make a whole lot of sense. But there are whole bunch of service providers
who do not fit into the category. They want to get into the whole triple
play business.

Things have progressed in the packet world where not only is it possible to
transport TDM frames over packet network but IT IS possible to provide clock
synchronization. And guess what? It is cost effective.

There is a interesting paper written about CES (circuit emulated services)
coming out of the Metro Ethernet Forum (MEF). It is a technical
specifications and goes into the whole timing issues. It is not a "how do I
implement" CES over Ethernet network but more like a requirements and
service specification document. Anyone can enroll and get a copy of the
paper from the MEF website.

As far other services over MPLS network, it is becoming increasingly clear
that you need a converged network layer for ease of provisioning,
maintenance, OPEX and CAPEX reduction (just to name a few) at least in the
core network. Ethernet in the last mile (or first mile) makes complete
sense(in the access network).

Vinay Bannai
Luminous Networks

-----Original Message-----
From: Alok Dube [mailto:alokdube@hotpop.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 1:17 AM
To: mpls-ops@mplsrc.com
Subject: [MPLS-OPS]: RE: L1/L2 over MPLS


Hi,

I have been watching this list with great interest for sometime now :o) and
have been silent as I no longer indulge in networking though do keep running
into old "monkey business" friends around here....

Eitherways,IMHO, running TDM frames over MPLS is really not the way to
go...any good book on the principals of Data networks will tell you the
same.

>From some benchmark results which I did as a part of the last network I
worked with (and these were good big routers), the latency induced by packet
switching nodes is too high compared to the circuit switched world. It
really would make more sense to put routing protocol stacks on a TDM and use
them for O&M  than to go the PWE3 way.

I just hope someone out there is doing it, it would be worthwhile :o)

As far as L2 over MPLS (packet/label switching) goes, I am pretty sure there
are people who have worked on Frame switching on this list who could best
share their experiences.
Somehow, ethernet-last-mile still seems to be headed to be a clear winner
from my observations in India, mainly on account of the low costs associated
and low maintenance and the ease of procurement. (I think someone else
mentioned this about another country sometime back).

so well, if you like "big/costly toys", good for you, :o)

but like me  if you want cheap and "will do" connectivity (which i think is
actually the bulk of the market)...ethernet last mile seems fine and that is
what I use as I type this email out..and whatever be the issues that may
come up in the same, I think it is something providers have to figure out
how to work around.

So my votes:
L1 over MPLS---no way!!
L2 over MPLS....umm maybe.. :o) (but then keep it at L2 and not L3 and L4
and L5 over MPLS...)

just some comments...



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------

Amjad Khan wrote:

Any ideas on Corrigent's packet ADM?  Do they transport SDH as a native
frame over MPLS.
-----Original Message-----
From: Amos Rosenboim [mailto:r.amos@zahav.net.il]
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 4:16 PM
To: Gupta, Shailendra; Khan, Amjad; mpls-ops@mplsrc.com
Subject: RE: [MPLS-OPS]: L1/L2 over MPLS


I would like to add to khan question.

Sometimes you need to transport L1 traffic and not hdlc. for example if you
want to transport a voice tdm E1 over a packet network.
In this example you need to transport the G.703 and not the PPP or HDLC
layer.
The only implementation i'm aware of is RAD IPMUX device.
As far as i know this solution works only betwen two RAD devices and they
encapsulate the G703 over ip and let the ELSR to do the mpls encapsulation
of the ip packets. i don't think they encapsulate G703 directly into an an
mpls frame.


Does anyone know of any other implementation?

10x
Amos



-----Original Message-----
From: Gupta, Shailendra [mailto:Shailendra.Gupta@hk.mci.com]
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 10:00 AM
To: Khan, Amjad; mpls-ops@mplsrc.com
Subject: RE: [MPLS-OPS]: L1/L2 over MPLS


Dear Khan
I guess, u intend asking for transporting L2 Traffic like
Ethernet/Frame-Relay/HDLC/ATM, using SDH/SONET as Physical Mode, over MPLS
Cloud[like Cisco ATOM; Any Transport over ATM based on Martini]. If so, yes
there are carriers who are implementing or implemented such commercial
services[like Metro Ethernet/Vlan].
I am sure, this distro will share more valuable inputs.
Shail


-----Original Message-----
From: Khan, Amjad [mailto:akhan@flagtelecom.com]
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 12:20 PM
To: mpls-ops@mplsrc.com
Subject: [MPLS-OPS]: L1/L2 over MPLS


Hi folks,
Are there any recommended solutions around for transporting SDH/Sonet
traffic over a packet/IP/MPLS based networkk.
I believe the PWE3 WG has been working, using the martini drafts on
transport over MPLS. Is there any commercial implementation done yet?
Thanks,
Amjad


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